Comments for ed notes http://mussar-psych.org Torah Insights Into How We Tick Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:19:55 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 Comment on The non-blessing blessing by E.D.Becker http://mussar-psych.org/2011/09/27/the-non-blessing-blessing/comment-page-1/#comment-56598 E.D.Becker Mon, 24 Oct 2011 15:19:55 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=103#comment-56598 Joseph, I'm afraid I'm not getting the drift of your comment and I'd like to understand it. You indicated that there is some manner X that is not the right way to give thanks (which is true in the case of the forbidden interest, but in the case of the blessings after food, there is simply no requirement to say a blessing in such cases), and that gratitude must be shown as a matter of mortality. I'm not sure that I see the connection between the gratitude and one's mortality. As for the law regarding verbal interest, the Halacha actually discusses the case where the lender asked the borrower to let him know a piece of information (eg. when so-and-so has come to town, when a certain flight is leaving or arriving, etc.) and the borrower gives him that information out of a deference that has been created by a loan. This is where 'verbal interest' is taught. The extension to expressions of gratitude which set up a relationship of submissive to master is where the teachers of Mussar saw the dangers of such verbal expressions of thanks. Let me know if you want references for this. Best wishes, ephraim Joseph, I’m afraid I’m not getting the drift of your comment and I’d like to understand it. You indicated that there is some manner X that is not the right way to give thanks (which is true in the case of the forbidden interest, but in the case of the blessings after food, there is simply no requirement to say a blessing in such cases), and that gratitude must be shown as a matter of mortality. I’m not sure that I see the connection between the gratitude and one’s mortality.

As for the law regarding verbal interest, the Halacha actually discusses the case where the lender asked the borrower to let him know a piece of information (eg. when so-and-so has come to town, when a certain flight is leaving or arriving, etc.) and the borrower gives him that information out of a deference that has been created by a loan. This is where ‘verbal interest’ is taught. The extension to expressions of gratitude which set up a relationship of submissive to master is where the teachers of Mussar saw the dangers of such verbal expressions of thanks. Let me know if you want references for this.

Best wishes,
ephraim

]]> Comment on The non-blessing blessing by Joseph http://mussar-psych.org/2011/09/27/the-non-blessing-blessing/comment-page-1/#comment-56589 Joseph Sun, 23 Oct 2011 20:34:13 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=103#comment-56589 In the story, the only reason why no thanks was given verbally (if is concept is even valid) was because of the prohibition of paying interest. How do you feel that a parallel can be drawn from that to our relationship with God? I think it will fit if you say that in both cases, you originally shouldn't give thanks in manner X, but afterwards you must show gratitude as a matter of mortality. I still find it hard to believe that verbal thanking would be considered interest. In the story, the only reason why no thanks was given verbally (if is concept is even valid) was because of the prohibition of paying interest. How do you feel that a parallel can be drawn from that to our relationship with God?

I think it will fit if you say that in both cases, you originally shouldn’t give thanks in manner X, but afterwards you must show gratitude as a matter of mortality.

I still find it hard to believe that verbal thanking would be considered interest.

]]> Comment on Unpopular Psychology – Mussar and Logotherapy by marcia greenwald http://mussar-psych.org/2011/08/30/unpopular-psychology-mussar-and-logotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-56219 marcia greenwald Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:39:29 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=97#comment-56219 I GREW UP WITH my mother's maxim's, one of which was,"I was not put on this earth to win a popularity contest!" The implications were that "... none of us is...so do something!" Yishar Kochacha I GREW UP WITH my mother’s maxim’s, one of which was,”I was not put on this earth to win a popularity contest!”

The implications were that “… none of us is…so do something!”

Yishar Kochacha

]]> Comment on Unpopular Psychology – Mussar and Logotherapy by Isaac Kasztl http://mussar-psych.org/2011/08/30/unpopular-psychology-mussar-and-logotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-56150 Isaac Kasztl Thu, 01 Sep 2011 17:26:48 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=97#comment-56150 Very well written as always. Lot's of great insight and very inspirational! Very well written as always. Lot’s of great insight and very inspirational!

]]> Comment on Unpopular Psychology – Mussar and Logotherapy by Haya Winiarz http://mussar-psych.org/2011/08/30/unpopular-psychology-mussar-and-logotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-56143 Haya Winiarz Wed, 31 Aug 2011 08:50:17 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=97#comment-56143 Rabbi Becker, Your words in response to Batya's wonderful experience, "it feels so good to be human in the ways that we were designed to be that we just want to share it with our fellow travelers" sum up what your excellent article evoked in me. I can imagine a time in the not so distant future in which the psychology of responsibility will be the most popular of all approaches, especially when presented as the freshness of human mental health at it's best. These are the notions which cheer one to get up in the morning and serve a higher calling with joy through every task in life! Thank you, Haya Rabbi Becker,
Your words in response to Batya’s wonderful experience, “it feels so good to be human in the ways that we were designed to be that we just want to share it with our fellow travelers” sum up what your excellent article evoked in me. I can imagine a time in the not so distant future in which the psychology of responsibility will be the most popular of all approaches, especially when presented as the freshness of human mental health at it’s best. These are the notions which cheer one to get up in the morning and serve a higher calling with joy through every task in life! Thank you, Haya

]]> Comment on Unpopular Psychology – Mussar and Logotherapy by E.D.Becker http://mussar-psych.org/2011/08/30/unpopular-psychology-mussar-and-logotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-56138 E.D.Becker Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:49:00 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=97#comment-56138 Indeed! One of the (many) reasons for the strange urge to share the secrets of Mussar and Logotherapy (and hence the fantasy of its becoming a mass-movement) is because it feels so good to be human in the ways that we were designed to be that we just want to share it with our fellow travelers. Did you hear the one about... We wish to share our joy. Indeed, one of our challenges is to make sure that we 'get it' for ourselves and not only share it as a bystander. Thank you so much for commenting! Indeed! One of the (many) reasons for the strange urge to share the secrets of Mussar and Logotherapy (and hence the fantasy of its becoming a mass-movement) is because it feels so good to be human in the ways that we were designed to be that we just want to share it with our fellow travelers. Did you hear the one about… We wish to share our joy. Indeed, one of our challenges is to make sure that we ‘get it’ for ourselves and not only share it as a bystander.

Thank you so much for commenting!

]]> Comment on Unpopular Psychology – Mussar and Logotherapy by Batya Yaniger http://mussar-psych.org/2011/08/30/unpopular-psychology-mussar-and-logotherapy/comment-page-1/#comment-56136 Batya Yaniger Tue, 30 Aug 2011 09:20:15 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/?p=97#comment-56136 Wow! This certainly resonates with me and stirs up many thoughts. I will only mention one of them. Upon leaving the hotel at the end of the logotherapy conference in Dallas, the cab driver turned to me and said: "Are you from this conference? I've met several people from it and I never saw anything like it before. I never saw a conference where everyone is so happy!" So perhaps we need to turn our attention to the minority and ask: Why are people involved in Mussar and/or Logotherapy so happy to be responsible and answer the call? What's their secret? Wow! This certainly resonates with me and stirs up many thoughts. I will only mention one of them. Upon leaving the hotel at the end of the logotherapy conference in Dallas, the cab driver turned to me and said: “Are you from this conference? I’ve met several people from it and I never saw anything like it before. I never saw a conference where everyone is so happy!” So perhaps we need to turn our attention to the minority and ask: Why are people involved in Mussar and/or Logotherapy so happy to be responsible and answer the call? What’s their secret?

]]> Comment on Chanukah and Taryton (We’d rather fight than switch) by MARCIA GREENWALD http://mussar-psych.org/2009/12/14/chanukah-and-taryton-wed-rather-fight-than-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-56105 MARCIA GREENWALD Wed, 24 Aug 2011 14:24:14 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/2009/12/14/chanukah-and-taryton-wed-rather-fight-than-switch/#comment-56105 THANK YOU... AND YOUR WORDS WILL NOW BE SENT TO INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO LIKE WHAT I SEND... THANK YOU… AND YOUR WORDS WILL NOW BE SENT TO INTELLIGENT PEOPLE WHO LIKE WHAT I SEND…

]]> Comment on Introduction to Mussar – the Real, the Ideal and the Process by E.D.Becker http://mussar-psych.org/2006/08/24/introduction-to-mussar-%e2%80%93-the-real-the-ideal-and-the-process/comment-page-1/#comment-56097 E.D.Becker Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:25:38 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/wordpress/?p=7#comment-56097 As the years go by, I'm sure that each of our thoughts on the relationship between Mussar and Psychology develops and matures. I have come to see the notion of being a "mentch" - a "yashar" - is a process of (re)aligning oneself with good and straight values and behaviors in order to set the gears in motion so that Mitzvos and Torah are able to engage seamlessly. In other words, the Torah's definition of a developing human being is one who is integrated and adjusted in such a way as to allow them to wear the crown gifts of Mitzvos, and above those Torah, naturally. It is a simple test of royalty that those who are properly crowned are those who carry the crown with dignity; they are the ones upon whose head the crown seems to properly fit. Analagously, the developing person is one who is increasingly suited to those crowns. If a person feels that those crowns have to be forced on himself with all sorts of strict rules, then he has probably not yet done the most crucial work of personal growth - becoming a straight mentsch. While there is nothing wrong (and indeed there is much good) with making guidelines for oneself, but those are the steps that we take to achieve that which fits us, not the crowbar to force on a crown where the bearer does not yet have the dignity to wear it. Psychology, it seems to me, does not concern itself with the majesty of a person, and certainly not with the emerging majesty which would allow one to regally bear the crowns of Mitzvos and Torah. Again, just some thinking as these topics evolve. Thanks so much for sharing - I hope that you'll continue to do so. As the years go by, I’m sure that each of our thoughts on the relationship between Mussar and Psychology develops and matures. I have come to see the notion of being a “mentch” – a “yashar” – is a process of (re)aligning oneself with good and straight values and behaviors in order to set the gears in motion so that Mitzvos and Torah are able to engage seamlessly. In other words, the Torah’s definition of a developing human being is one who is integrated and adjusted in such a way as to allow them to wear the crown gifts of Mitzvos, and above those Torah, naturally. It is a simple test of royalty that those who are properly crowned are those who carry the crown with dignity; they are the ones upon whose head the crown seems to properly fit. Analagously, the developing person is one who is increasingly suited to those crowns. If a person feels that those crowns have to be forced on himself with all sorts of strict rules, then he has probably not yet done the most crucial work of personal growth – becoming a straight mentsch. While there is nothing wrong (and indeed there is much good) with making guidelines for oneself, but those are the steps that we take to achieve that which fits us, not the crowbar to force on a crown where the bearer does not yet have the dignity to wear it.

Psychology, it seems to me, does not concern itself with the majesty of a person, and certainly not with the emerging majesty which would allow one to regally bear the crowns of Mitzvos and Torah.

Again, just some thinking as these topics evolve.

Thanks so much for sharing – I hope that you’ll continue to do so.

]]> Comment on Chanukah and Taryton (We’d rather fight than switch) by E.D.Becker http://mussar-psych.org/2009/12/14/chanukah-and-taryton-wed-rather-fight-than-switch/comment-page-1/#comment-56096 E.D.Becker Tue, 23 Aug 2011 08:03:28 +0000 http://mussar-psych.org/2009/12/14/chanukah-and-taryton-wed-rather-fight-than-switch/#comment-56096 You are welcome to use or forward any material that you find here. May we each merit to have a share in bringing redemption. Thank you! Ephraim You are welcome to use or forward any material that you find here. May we each merit to have a share in bringing redemption. Thank you!
Ephraim

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